Ramblings:

If God lived on earth, people would break his windows.
-- Jewish proverb

Jesus was a Jew, yes, but only on his mother's side.

How odd of God
To choose the Jews

And in rebuttal:

But not so odd
As those who choose
A Jewish God
Yet spurn the Jews

Woody Allen: If it turns out that there is a God, I don't think that he's evil. But the worst that you can say about him is that basically he's an underachiever.

Everything in that post was written in a somewhat jocular vein. No comment about God being an underachiever?

So, you're saying that Mary wasn't Jewish?

Cheers,
enegue

And same to you, enegue, down there on the flip side of the earth.

Jo, that final conclusion didn't make sense to me. It looked more like they wanted to get a bet each way as we say. There would be no shame about that in the horror and trauma of such a place but apart from that it doesn't make sense. (to me)

Anyone interested in discussion on topics like this might find this interesting http://www.australianreview.net/digest/2008/02/kohn.html

JoAnn, I do really appreciate that. It's been too many years since I read Night and Dawn. A very special man, indeed. Two thoughts rolling around my head right now. Are you familiar with Martin Buber and his Ich und Du/I and Thou in which he discusses relationships--with both God and other human beings? And, two, do you remember a black-and-white scene in Schindler's List in which a young girl in a red coat runs through the crowd? No coincidence I think (and hope) that a witness at the Eichmann trial describes the last time he saw his young daughter--wearing her red coat. I think it was Stalin who said that one death is a tragedy, six million a statistic. The Israelis say *Never Again*, but the world seems to need the mass
spilling of blood periodically.

Sundog: these are people who serenaded people going to the gas chambers, with string quartets and the like.

Hi BigFelix,

I'm very familiar with Martin Buber & especially I & Thou although I haven't read him in years. I Love the Idea of the I-Thou relationship where all of one's being is involved. Of course there is always uncertainty in relation with one to the other. But this idea is forever paired (in my mind at least) to the unpredictable nature of freedom. I like how Peter Gabriel expresses this:

(Do you understand this? Am I speaking in Symbols again? Never Mind then! )

As for the scene from Schindler's List. I do remember that scene in black & white with red. Some scenes are forever etched in my mind. I only saw the movie once & I don't know if I could see it again. (SomeOne just might have to hold my hand throughout & even then ...) The Horror!

(& what movie is that line from? that one I've see more than once.)

I don't understand a lot. I dream of Peace.

Love,
JoAnn

Jews are Jews because of Abraham.

Jews are the Children of Abraham, or they are not Jews. Romans points this out.

If I'm wrong, please point out the scripture that says so.

The Bible then goes on to say that the covenant that marks a Jew, is on the Barbarian too, but unseen.
So these people who are not Jewish are as much a Jew as a Blood relative o Abraham, since we carry the mark of the Jew.
It's like were adopted into becoming a Jew, and have the rights of a Child of Abraham. Namely Jesus the Christ.

Hi Roman

Welcome,

I think it is very possible that your poster is not too honest about who and what he is. The posting over there contains the hallmarks of someone that has posted under several different Avatars over here. Most of those that have been banned are probably his attempts to support his positions or simply attempts to disrupt the forum. If you take the time to read some of the threads here, it is pretty clear what has happened.

As for your topical question, I think that Felix summed it up nicely. I don't think it's really possible to speak for anyone's relationship to God but my own. Of course, I can look at some people and determine for myself if I think their lifestyle or actions are something I agree with but I'm not in any position to pass judgment upon their relationship with God either as individuals or as a nation of people.

I believe that God has made promises to all of mankind that He will fulfill if allow to do so. I don't know that the promises that a He made to the nations of Israel are still in force simply because I'm not so sure that they continue to hold up their end of those bargains BUT I respect the original promise and believe that God will uphold them IF the covenant has not been broken. In other words. I don't know and I don't think it really matter to me, personally.

ZZ