The way I look at it, there's nothing to loose The spammers already obviously have me on their mailing lists.

KnujOn simply has a different stance than other anti-spam efforts.

Based on what they offer (registration, etc.) they seem more into "brand protection" and the forensics side of spam. Who knows, maybe they know something we don't

KnujOn from the start worked from a "different angle" than most. Perhaps they know of a loop-hole to penalize these criminals further, since by running a phish site, a spammer/phisher is actually violating trademarks/etc violations, using the sites logos, templates, etc. for their criminal purposes.

They cross-report all forwarded spam to many authoriative addresses, including the FDA, FTC, SEC, PayPal, and other related banks. This is what caught my eye when I first read about knujon, being able to submit my spam to one address, and then allow them (Knujon) submit it to the rest of the addresses, saving me the effort of forwarding each individual spam to each organization as seems fit.

Not to mention, fighting with spam filters that bounce back the "spam" that I report. Knujon offers a "set and forget" kinda option.

With the amount of EVIDENCE that Knujon must receive, they could be of some great help to law enforcement and other "authoriative figures" when it comes to spam samples too...though, I'm surprised to see no responses from Knujon at the Evidence Required thread....Knujon must have stopped watching this forum.

"Why so angry my friend, we're trying to help."
Angry? Hardly... Disappointed? Certainly.

"Hardly, we're pushing more and more data out, getting more of the media to listen up, getting the ear of government and industry."
Reminds me of a lot of "Awareness" campaigns that raise money, do some PR, and not much else! Even members have pointed out your lack of responsiveness on this board.

"Ok, so your goal is to see us fail?"
If that was my goal I would not have stayed with this attempt for years. Who is being angry and defensive?

"Whatever works in your experience is valid. If you want to stick to another service or product, go for it. But you are not really supplying anything constructive here. By saying you no longer submit you invalidate your viewpoint."

A thinly veiled get lost? I thought it might serve the purpose of informing others that have had a lack of success they are not alone. This, instead of just disappearing like most do. I guess that would tend to make you look better wouldn't it? I stand by my words and experience. The closure of sites is a common occurence on the web and your "efforts" don't seem to be impacting the rate. Your frequent posting of spam scare stories instead of documenting your successes might fool some for a while, but time tells. Good luck to all that fight the spam battle.
f1jim

And good luck to you as well!

Seems to me that knujon has a couple of things right:

1) Go after the spamvertized website--as close as you can get to the true black-hats. Personally, I am frustrated with SC going after the zombies and not being able to 'resolve' so many spamvertized addresses because they are 'not in the cache'.
2)Protection. The slime will try to obtain your adr so they can spoof it and rain a few thousand bounces to you. Not gonna happen w/ Knujon.
3) We owe Knujon a big 'thank you' for getting ICANN letters sent out to the biggest black hats (sorry, that is what I consider them).

***Kujon results slow and weak ??? Gee, that would not have anything to do with the organizations they have to interface with would it ? ***

I dropped Knujon some time ago, so cannot be accused of being a cheerleader, but I am inclined to rejoin. WHO ELSE has had any luck with ICANN ? I certainly share Tembow's frustration.

I would suggest our frustrations be aimed more at our own governments/ICANN/$Credit Card companies$.

I DONT CARE WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT KNUJON, report the top 10 spam, either cc: to ICANN or fwd'd to Knujon.
We have a (small/slim) opening to get ICANN to do something momentous.

---LETS ENSURE ICANN KNOWS THESE REGISTRARS HAVE NOT HEEDED THE LETTERS.

vent-spleen-ON:
My govt (US) has invested a lot of blood and treasure in Korea-and still maintains a presence, even if we do owe asia trillions. Unlike Iraq, it is hard to argue it was done for idiotic reasons, tho it could be argued we are fools for staying there.
To thank us, Korea now acts as the surrogate for China re:serving a huge load of sh$$$t via hanaro. bora, and friends.
THANK YOU S.K. Job $$$well done$$$ Really great to have such 'friends'. You are doing a helluva job controlling the spam.
Thanks loads.
vent-spleen-OFF:

I like Knujon, but I wanted to clarify one point you made.

I've had plenty of joe-jobs. I've also gotten those little "antis are lamers" taunts via email. My email address is on a list of people who report to spamcop that the spammers circulate among themselves. It's also on the list of Blue Frog subscribers. They know I'm an anti, and they don't particularly care or consider me or most of the rest of us a threat. Otherwise, they would stop sending spam to people who create hassles for them.

I have had several joe jobs that created a lot of blowback spam and which clearly all came from a single spammer. He knows enough about me to want to let me know he knows. Yet the same doofus continues to mail his direct spam to me, knowing I'll report it. Why he thinks more of the exact same spam constitutes "retaliation" is a mystery. If this type of childish behavior makes the spammer feel a sense of satisfaction, who cares -- he's basically dumping a mound of evidence in my lap. If he is connected to the affiliate code for any one of the spam brands involved, he's provided the evidence that all the others connect to him as well. And my Mailwasher filters can identify and autodelete 1500 blowback spams as easily as they can identify one should I tire of saving them as evidence.

The reason that the spammers won`t stop... ``sending spam to people who create hassles for them``. is not that they are childish, but just plain stupid. It is real simple. Scrub the names of people who cause hassles for you and you will get less hassle. The fact that they continue to send spam to such people, the spam is reported, some registars shut them down, other registars who ignored their(spammer`s) actions find that their ICANN accreditation is may now be on the line for their inaction all mean one thing - a major financial blow the the spammers. You would think that if most spammers were spamming for money, they would have figured out that it is not in thier best financial interests to keep spamming people who are not interested in and who will never buy their garbage.

What I meant by "childish" is that a given mailer is aware enough of who I am to joe job me regularly yet the same guy doesn't think to stop mailing to me.

"Stupid" is the other mailers who haven't thought to remove all the Blue Frog members and Spamcop submitters from their lists because they don't even know they're the ones giving them hassles.

What ticks me off is when I give a personal email address to personal contacts like friends and relatives, and they take it upon themselves to give that address to someone else without askimg me. The main problem are worthy charities or political groups they think I would like to hear from. The typical website has a function like, "Now that's you've taken action, invite your friends to act, too!" and asks for email addresses. The site then generates emails to those people as if you wrote them yourself.

The problems are A) Just because I agree with a cause doesn't mean I want email from it B) If I do agree with it and want notices, I have probably already subscribed using a public email address, so now I'm getting duplicate notices C) Spammers have set up fake charities to harvest email addresses this way -- click here to feed a puppy in a shelter, donate money to breast cancer, give a sick child a trip, whatever. Someone did that to me and the spam that started showing up first was the storm worm and the stock pump and dump spam (when the storm sites actually hosted the pump and dump image spam), so there are some fairly nasty spammers using that technique.

Contributing my 2 cents' worth, I must say that I find f1jim's attitude both puzzling and offensive. I find particularly offensive the implication that KnujOn has some ulterior motive, or even that KnujOn is some kind of con.

Surely anyone with more than a modicum of commonsense would realise that the war against spam is going to be very long and tiring for everyone involved.

IIRC, KnujOn himself wrote in a post somewhere (I don't remember exactly, but it was a long time ago), words to the effect that individual reporters may not see a reduction in the amount of spam, at least, not initially. He has also pointed out that the fight to shut down the spammmers and their illicit sites would be long and difficult.

Anyone who is interested in reading a very good explanation of the reason for fighting spam might like to read this old posting from 2004 by "Miss Betsy" on the SpamCop Forums. I'm sure many of you are already members of SpamCop, and will probably be familiar with Miss Betsy's many well-written and well-reasoned postings on that forum.

As a long-time member of SpamCop, CastleCops and KnujOn, I would like to say that, even though my daily spam count doesn't seem to be diminishing, I still keep up the effort. Also, although I am well aware that my contribution is only very small, (daily average around 35 spams reported, compared with the thousands reported by some others), it still gives me a great feeling of satisfaction that I am doing "my little bit" to help clean up the neighbourhood.

The membership cost for CastleCops is NIL, whilst the membership costs for SpamCop and KnujOn are negligible; IT IS ALL MONEY WELL SPENT, IN MY NOT-SO-HUMBLE OPINION!

Keep up all your good work, KnujOn! Your replies to f1jim all show you to be nothing if not most gracious, and well-deserving of our support!

Sargeant
You find my posting of my experience offensive? Are you saying that only positive news is welcome here? Sounds like burying your head in the sand is preferable to the truth if the truth is painful! Many of you, posting support for the efforts of Knujon, acknowledge the lack of progress. How long has Knujon been at this? Go back to the Knujon website and look at the claims. Then look at the reality. THAT is all I am saying. I am sorry of that is "offensive to you." I stand by my words and encourage those of you sending money to knujon find something more worthy to give your money to. This is like giving money to an insurance company that is not quite able to cover you yet. But if they get enough payers THEN they will be able to cover your losses. When Knujon was not charging you could understand the years of waiting. Now that they are supposedly providing a service it's logical to assume some measure of progress. How long have they been charging?
I refuse to send good money after bad. I will continue to monitor and await the time they have ANY significant effect on SPAM. I am not holding my breath!!!
f1jim