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Gitmo Tragedy
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alanstancliff

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:19 am    Post subject:
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Didn't the army fire a bunch of guys who were fluent in Arabic and familiar with the culture because they were gay? Seems that I heard something about that.

Maybe I don't have the story straight (so to speak).

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Alan

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BigFelix
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:50 am    Post subject:
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Every ship and naval station was assigned a four-letter code (perhaps all military stations). Guantanamo Bay's code was GTMO, ergo Gitmo. My memories of Gitmo. I was on an aircraft carrier. She anchored in the Bay. Security was over the top--frogmen and all, we were told. So, there I am one day at the landing waiting for a launch back to the ship; and here comes this little wooden boat, gaily colored, chugging past the ship and nobody pays it any attention. And I knew enough not to ask the obvious question; this, of course, is the military bureaucracy. The boat docks at the landing and there are a few Cuban guys selling pineapples. They "skinned" it and cut down the thorny greens on top (what is that called?) into a cone shape that you held onto while eating the fruit. It was so sweet and juicy that I still (almost) salivate when I think of it. Absolutely delicious! Then there was the Cuban beer at the service clubs. Called Hatouey or something akin to that. I just recently learned that this was the name of a Cuban patriot from aways back. One bottle would be like water, the next like whiskey. How do you say "quality control" in Spanish? Then the Cuban workers on base, especially the women. You could look, drool, and wish. But one word to her was an instant report and a mast. The big problem was on the bus that went around the base. One day a gorgeous young woman sat down next to me and started giving me a lovely "Yanqui, I'm gonna give you a stiffy" smile. Any place else and I would have asked her, "What are you doing now that you've quit your career in modeling?" Works. Then there was the story about "fence pussy" in the lighthouse area. Americans couldn't go into town (Santiago de Cuba, if I remember correctly), so prostitutes would come to the lighthouse area, make their deals, bend over, and back into the fence. I don't know if this is true or not, but it makes for a great story.

In my next post I'll tell you about cleaning the E Division head.


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JoAnnCQ
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:54 pm    Post subject:
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VastlyRight wrote:
From Congresspedia
Quote:
The MCA defines as "unlawful enemy combatants" as anyone who has "purposefully and materially" supported hostilities against the United States. This includes support that takes place off the battlefield.

Quote:
The MCA created a system of military commissions — criminal courts run by the U.S. armed services — to try non-citizen detainees designated as unlawful enemy combatants.


Emphasis mine

Quote:
Applicability to U.S. citizens
The MCA applies only to "alien unlawful enemy combatants" and as such does not appear to apply to U.S. citizens. However, non-citizen U.S. residents — including green card holders — can be designated as alien unlawful enemy combatants.


There are of course possibilities for abuse of the statute.
where non citizen residents are concerned.Perhaps we should allow infiltrators to strike with impunity.After all,what are a few thousand deaths here and there in the grand scheme of things.
[according to MM]


Quote:
Military commissions have historically been used to dispense battlefield justice; to try captured combatants for violations of the laws of war. They have also been used to replace or substitute for civilian courts during martial law or under the occupation of enemy territory. Historically, it has been U.S. practice for military commissions to function as closely as possible to courts martial.


Hiii There!

Let's look at some ancient American history, so much fun!

Quote:
Japanese American internment refers to the forcible relocation and internment of approximately 110,000 Japanese nationals and Japanese Americans to housing facilities called "War Relocation Camps", in the wake of Imperial Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor.[1][2] The internment of Japanese Americans was effected unequally throughout the United States. Japanese Americans residing on the West Coast of the United States were all interned, whereas in Hawaii, where over 150,000 Japanese Americans comprised nearly a third of that territory's population, an additional 1,200[3] to 1,800 Japanese Americans were interned.[4] Of those interned, 62 percent were United States citizens.[5][6]

President Franklin Roosevelt authorized the internment with Executive Order 9066, which allowed local military commanders to designate "military areas" as "exclusion zones", from which "any or all persons may be excluded." This power was used to declare that all people of Japanese ancestry were excluded from the entire Pacific coast, including all of California and most of Oregon and Washington, except for those in internment camps. [7] In 1944, the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the exclusion orders,[8] while noting that the provisions that singled out people of Japanese ancestry were a separate issue outside the scope of the proceedings.[9]

In 1988, Congress passed and President Ronald Reagan signed legislation which apologized for the internment on behalf of the U.S. government. The legislation stated that government actions were based on "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership".[10] $1.6 billion in reparations were later disbursed by the U.S. government to surviving internees and their heirs.[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment


Now here's the really fun, fun, fun part about looking at ancient American history (please note: as a result of short attention spans & such "ancient" is anything occurring more than 3 weeks ago).

This is relating to something VR wrote waaaay back when ... in a kooky & spooky take on the wording of habeus corpus rights (& at least VR was Never the U.S. Attorney General!) Alberto Gonzales who really was the U.S. Attorney General (George Bush's "yes man" & now resigned because ... well, people caught on, I guess You could say) & oddly enuff, when He really was AG, he had also been questioning whether the U.S. Constitution grants habeas corpus rights of a fair trial to every American?


VastlyRight wrote:

There are of course possibilities for abuse of the statute where non citizen residents are concerned. Perhaps we should allow infiltrators to strike with impunity? After all, what are a few thousand deaths here and there in the grand scheme of things? [according to MM that is?]


The understatement of the year.

& now back to ancient history. In the Japanese concentration camps after Pearl Harbor, did'ja notice 62% were good ole US of friggin' A citizens? & did'ja also notice that tricky Exec Order? Now I'm Not saying King George is even half as intelligent as Franklin ... but well ya'see where I'm going with this?

& did'ja also notice what happened a short 40 something years later? Another US of A Pres says that these "government actions were based on "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership." WoW! Easy for Him to say!

I say we should celebrate short attention spans! How else would it be possible to pull the wool over people's eyes & control them?

& Hmmm, what's that You say? Adding religion to the mix? Well yeah that would work too, but that's all been done already.

Get creative guys, this stuff is getting old. & Younger people are Not the "pushovers" You seem to think they are. They're waking up too.

C'mon guys, what are You? afraid of Your own shadows or something?

Love & Peace,
JoAnn

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BigFelix
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject:
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The Japanese internment was set in motion by FDR's Executive Order 9066. The internment authority was the Alien Enemy Control Unit of the Department of Justice. Edward Ennis, wartime director of the Unit, was also spokesman for the ACLU. He argued the cases in the lower courts and when they reached the United States Supreme Court he wrote the briefs for the Solicitor General. The internment cases were decided in 1943 and 1944. 900 Alaskan Aleuts were also interned. None of the lawyers who represented the Japanese-Americans had the backing of the national ACLU. Earl Warren, California's Attorney-General at the time, supported the evacuation.

Legalized Racism: The Internment of Japanese Americans: by Anupam Chander --
      http://www.chander.com/docs/internment.pdf

Justice at War: Civil Liberties and Civil Right During Times of Crisis, by Peter Irons

Farewell to Manzanar: A True Story of Japanese American Experience During and After the World War II Internment, by Jeanne Wakatsuki Houston and James D. Houston


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alanstancliff

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject:
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BigFelix wrote:
The Japanese internment was set in motion by FDR's Executive Order 9066. The internment authority was the Alien Enemy Control Unit of the Department of Justice. Edward Ennis, wartime director of the Unit, was also spokesman for the ACLU. He argued the cases in the lower courts and when they reached the United States Supreme Court he wrote the briefs for the Solicitor General. The internment cases were decided in 1943 and 1944. 900 Alaskan Aleuts were also interned. None of the lawyers who represented the Japanese-Americans had the backing of the national ACLU. Earl Warren, California's Attorney-General at the time, supported the evacuation.

Legalized Racism: The Internment of Japanese Americans: by Anupam Chander --
      http://www.chander.com/docs/internment.pdf

Justice at War: Civil Liberties and Civil Right During Times of Crisis, by Peter Irons

Farewell to Manzanar: A True Story of Japanese American Experience During and After the World War II Internment, by Jeanne Wakatsuki Houston and James D. Houston


Hi Felix,

Those are some very good points. The ACLU certainly became weak-kneed in the face of racist anti-Asian hysteria promoted by the Roosevelt administration, among others.

Interestingly, President Eisenhower appointed Earl Warren to be the Chief Justice of Supreme Court because he wanted a well-known and regarded conservative in that position, and Earl Warren had been a conservative Republican governor, prosecuting attorney, and politician in California.

Earl Warren then became a much more liberal justice than anyone had expected, and the Warren court is considered to be perhaps the most liberal supreme court in American history.


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JoAnnCQ
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:42 am    Post subject:
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Quote:
“The Legalization of Racism”

Many have sought recently to excuse the internment as reasonable given the information available at the time. But this claim is belied by the fact that some observers denounced—during the War itself—the internment as militarily unnecessary. Yale Law Professor Eugene Rostow concluded in an article published in 1945 that the internment rested, not on military needs, but on “race prejudice.” (Rostow) Dissenting from the Supreme Court’s decision in Korematsu in 1944, Justice Murphy labeled the internment the “legalization of racism.” (Korematsu opinion)

Case Excerpt
Korematsu v. United States, 323 U.S. 214 (1944)

Mr. Justice MURPHY, dissenting.

This exclusion of 'all persons of Japanese ancestry, both alien and non-alien,' from the Pacific Coast area on a plea of military necessity in the absence of martial law ought not to be approved. Such exclusion goes over 'the very brink of constitutional power' and falls into the ugly abyss of racism.

… [T]his forced exclusion was the result in good measure of this erroneous assumption of racial guilt rather than bona fide military necessity…

Justification for the exclusion is sought, instead, mainly upon questionable racial and sociological grounds not ordinarily within the realm of expert military judgment, supplemented by certain semimilitary conclusions drawn from an unwarranted use of circumstantialevidence. Individuals of Japanese ancestry are condemned because they are said to be 'a large, unassimilated, tightly knit racial group, bound to an enemy nation by strong ties of race, culture, custom and religion.' They are claimed to be given to 'emperor worshipping ceremonies' and to 'dual citizenship.' Japanese language schools and allegedly pro-Japanese organizations are cited as evidence of possible group disloyalty, together with facts as to certain persons being educated and residing at length in Japan…

[T]he retention by some persons of certain customs and religious practices of their ancestors is no criterion of their loyalty to the United States….

I dissent, therefore, from this legalization of racism… All residents of this nation are kin in some way by blood or culture to a foreign land. Yet they are primarily and necessarily a part of the new and distinct civilization of the United States. They must accordingly be treated at all times as the heirs of the American experiment and as entitled to all the rights and freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution.

Legalized Racism: The Internment of Japanese Americans: by Anupam Chander

http://www.chander.com/docs/internment.pdf


The Peoples who do not (or refuse to) learn from History ("ancient" or otherwise) are doomed. (period)

Welcome to the American Experiment!

& The Universe is Waking Up! Good Morning SunShine! (You are my SunShine, my only SunShine ...)

Happy WTFU Day!

Love & Peace,
JoAnn Hello

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BigFelix
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:43 am    Post subject:
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Eisenhower is said to have stated that Earl Warren was "the biggest damned-fool mistake I ever made". But America is a better place due to some of the Warren court's monumental decisions. For more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Warren

The ACLU is a different story; it picks and chooses its cases well. See one example: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE6DB113AF933A2575AC0A96F948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=3


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VastlyRight

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:45 am    Post subject:
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alanstancliff wrote:
Didn't the army fire a bunch of guys who were fluent in Arabic and familiar with the culture because they were gay? Seems that I heard something about that.

Maybe I don't have the story straight (so to speak).

Regards,

Alan

Hi Alan it appears you are [at least] half right.there were a bunch let go after revealing they were gay.There is no indication that any were exceptionally well versed in arabic customs etc. from MSNBC
Quote:
Between 1998 and 2004, the military discharged 20 Arabic and six Farsi speakers, according to Department of Defense data obtained by the Center for the Study of Sexual Minorities in the Military under a Freedom of Information Act request.
They dont specify when each was discharged,one example cited
Quote:
Ian Finkenbinder, an Army Arabic linguist who graduated from the Defense Language Institute in 2002, was discharged from the military last month after announcing to his superiors that he’s gay. Finkenbinder, who said his close friends in the Army already knew he was gay, served eight months in Iraq and was about to return for a second tour when he made the revelation official.

“I looked at myself and said, ‘Are you willing to go to war with an institution that won’t recognize that you have the right to live as you want to?,”’ said Finkenbinder, 22, who now lives in Baltimore. “It just got to be tiresome to deal with that — to constantly have such a significant part of your life under scrutiny.”


In this example at least,being openly gay was more important to Finkenbinder than serving in the military.Seems to me he used it as an out [no pun intended] from doing a second tour of duty in Iraq.

Also reported:


Quote:
Some complain of hiring in the first place
But others, like Elaine Donnelly of the Center for Military Readiness, a conservative advocacy group that opposes gays serving in the military, said the discharged linguists never should have been accepted at the elite Defense Language Institute in Monterey in the first place.

“Resources unfortunately were used to train young people who were not eligible to be in the military,” she said.


All employers and organizations set standards for employees,members.the point is that there are standards to be met and this one joined knowing full well about the don't ask/don't tell policy.As all the discharged must surely have.He basically used the system's limited resources to get an education then bailed when the going got tough.
Thanks dude!

I hope he wasn't typical of gays in the military,he hardly reflects well on the community as a whole.


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alanstancliff

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:41 am    Post subject:
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Here's an interesting angle on the "torture" that the US is alleged to have used. Apparently, according to a recent story in the New York Times, the interrogation tactics used were more-or-less copied from the Chinese Communist handbook for questioning American prisoners-of-war during the Korean war.

I remember during that war we heard a lot of politicians say that these tactics showed how evil those Chinese Communists actually were.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:38 pm    Post subject:
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alanstancliff wrote:
I found a link to that article in the Monthly Review. I hope my friends Muddy and VR get a chance to read it and provide a bit of feedback on what they think.

The link is here.

Regards,

Alan


Actually did read it last weekend Al. Started and never finished my commentary. Im sure it was half witty and poorly thought out but all I can recall now was I pretty much agree with the damn thing.

I do recall the part about fear and the interrogators and thought that was right on the money.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:04 pm    Post subject:
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Well Muddy,

As we all know, fear can turn into white-hot anger.

Here's another angle on the USA and torture. Apparently, our tax dollars are paying for the spread of other countries using torture.

According to this story on USA Today, US agents are teaching Mexican police in the city of León torture techniques. This has become a huge scandal in Mexico, where the drug war has caused many deaths and what is beginning to look more and more like the beginnings of a civil war.

Here is a part of the video that was played on Mexican television that has caused such an uproar.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:31 pm    Post subject:
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Another reason why foreign aid sucks. Not that foreign aid ever doesn't suck.

Everytime I think of foreign aid I think of the book "The Mouse That Roared" by Leonard Wibberley

Don't even get me started on Mexico and drugs


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