CastleCops, Internet Crime Fighters
Need help? Click here to register for free! Absolutely zero advertisements on this site!

$9736.22 of $21422.68
left sidedonated so farneed $11686.46 donated to reach our goalright side, our goal
Help CastleCops serve the community on new servers, Donate Here to reach our goal.

Donation/Premium
spacer
block bottom
Security Central
spacer
· Home
· PIRT/Fried Phish
· MIRT
· SIRT
· Deutsch
· Wiki
· Newsletter
· O16/ActiveX
· CLSID List
· Contest2007
· Downloads
· Feedback (send)
· Forums
· HijackThis
· Hijacktrend
· LSPs
· My Downloads
· O18
· O20
· O21
· O22
· O23
· O9
· Premium
· Private Messages
· Proxomitron
· Reviews
· Search
· StartupList
· Stories Archive
· Submit News
· WsIRT
· Your Account
· Acceptable Use Policy
block bottom
Survey
spacer
Was 2007 a good year?

Yes it was a wonderful year
Yes, but there is always room for improvement
Status quo
It was a challenge
Other (leave comment)



Results
Polls

Votes: 940
Comments: 25
block bottom
spacer spacer

Is God a Hands-On Manager?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ... 15, 16, 17  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic       All -> FavForums -> Religion [del.icio.us!] [digg it!] [reddit!]
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
enegue

General
General
Premium Member

Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 3225
Location: Australia
Premium

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 8:36 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

I'm afraid you just don't understand the nature of evidence, Agnos. Evidence is not just the data you are willing to accept, but incorporates all available material, including the bible.

You mention Akhenaten who introduced his people to the worship of Aken, but the best estimate for this practice is around the middle of the thirteenth century BCE. Moses lived and Israel flourished a century before this, and the record of Job was written two centuries before that. You are simply grasping at straws.

Around 2000 BCE, Abraham brought the knowledge of his monotheistic belief to the Pharaohs
And it came to pass, that, when Abram was come into Egypt, the Egyptians beheld the woman that she was very fair. The princes also of Pharaoh saw her, and commended her before Pharaoh: and the woman was taken into Pharaoh's house. And he entreated Abram well for her sake: and he had sheep, and oxen, and he asses, and menservants, and maidservants, and she asses, and camels. And the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram's wife. And Pharaoh called Abram, and said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife? Why saidst thou, She is my sister? so I might have taken her to me to wife: now therefore behold thy wife, take her, and go thy way. And Pharaoh commanded his men concerning him: and they sent him away, and his wife, and all that he had.
-- Genesis 12:14-20

It is not unreasonable to suggest that the reverse of what you claim, is true - Ra was the invention, and was a by-product of the Pharaoh's encounters with Yahweh.

Just caught this before my 15 minutes expired:

Wynne-R wrote:
The Bible is based on oral tradition which existed long before it was ever written. Religion must have existed long before the Jews, or even Akhenaten
Absolutely. All the way back to Adam and Eve. Wink

Cheers,
enegue

Back to top
View users profile Send private message
Wynne-R

Major
Major


Joined: Jul 30, 2005
Posts: 1411
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:37 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

I should have seen that coming, but you got me. “All the way back to Adam and Eve.” So, Christianity, rather than being the upstart religion usurped from the Jews, presumes an unbroken lineage back to the first humans. Well done, Enegue.

I had thought Christianity began after Christ’s death. Apparently Christianity began with Genesis, at the moment of the creation of time, or perhaps five days later.

Set the wayback machine, Sherman, we’re rewriting history today.

— Wynn

Back to top
View users profile Send private message
agnos
Currently banned

Captain
Captain


Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 629
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:57 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Right, but the academic community has agreed that the God Aten was the first attempt at monotheism ever in the history of mankind. So excuse me, but I prefer to believe them. That is the informed consensus.


_________________
Humans are the most vicious of all animal species.

And we still prey(sic)...

Does anyone ever listen?
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
agnos
Currently banned

Captain
Captain


Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 629
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:05 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

enegue wrote:
I'm afraid you just don't understand the nature of evidence, Agnos. Evidence is not just the data you are willing to accept, but incorporates all available material, including the bible.

You mention Akhenaten who introduced his people to the worship of Aken, but the best estimate for this practice is around the middle of the thirteenth century BCE. Moses lived and Israel flourished a century before this, and the record of Job was written two centuries before that. You are simply grasping at straws.

Around 2000 BCE, Abraham brought the knowledge of his monotheistic belief to the Pharaohs
And it came to pass, that, when Abram was come into Egypt, the Egyptians beheld the woman that she was very fair. The princes also of Pharaoh saw her, and commended her before Pharaoh: and the woman was taken into Pharaoh's house. And he entreated Abram well for her sake: and he had sheep, and oxen, and he asses, and menservants, and maidservants, and she asses, and camels. And the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram's wife. And Pharaoh called Abram, and said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife? Why saidst thou, She is my sister? so I might have taken her to me to wife: now therefore behold thy wife, take her, and go thy way. And Pharaoh commanded his men concerning him: and they sent him away, and his wife, and all that he had.
-- Genesis 12:14-20

It is not unreasonable to suggest that the reverse of what you claim, is true - Ra was the invention, and was a by-product of the Pharaoh's encounters with Yahweh.

Just caught this before my 15 minutes expired:
Wynne-R wrote:
The Bible is based on oral tradition which existed long before it was ever written. Religion must have existed long before the Jews, or even Akhenaten
Absolutely. All the way back to Adam and Eve. Wink

Cheers,
enegue



enegue, I am honest in my research. I got that info from Wiki, here it is, will also check your reference about Moses.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhenaten

It's the top paragraph.

"Akhenaten [ alt: Ikhnaton ] (meaning Effective spirit of Aten), first known as Amenhotep IV (sometimes read as Amenophis IV and meaning Amun is Satisfied) before his first year, was a Pharaoh of the Eighteenth dynasty of Egypt, especially notable for attempting to compel the Egyptian population to monotheistically worship the Aten. Although there are doubts as to how successful he was at this, it was the first known attempt at monotheism the world had seen."


_________________
Humans are the most vicious of all animal species.

And we still prey(sic)...

Does anyone ever listen?
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
agnos
Currently banned

Captain
Captain


Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 629
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:25 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

enegue, I could not find a source that backs you up. Please feel free to point me to such sources. Here is the definition of monotheism"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism

Read the whole article please.

It appears the Jews had other tribal Gods too. Anyway, all reputable sources I could find speak of Akhenaten as the first attempt at generalized monotheism in the history of man. This is the terminology they are using, and I have to study this further. It's kind of a grey area. You could be right, I could be right. This requires more research. I only used what is available from reputable sources anyway, and they do say this about that Aten God-Dude. We'll continue later.


_________________
Humans are the most vicious of all animal species.

And we still prey(sic)...

Does anyone ever listen?
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
enegue

General
General
Premium Member

Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 3225
Location: Australia
Premium

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 2:54 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Wynne-R wrote:
I had thought Christianity began after Christ’s death. Apparently Christianity began with Genesis, at the moment of the creation of time, or perhaps five days later.
That's right. Consider this exchange between Jesus and the Pharisees:
Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

Jesus answered, If I honor myself, my honor is nothing: it is my Father that honoreth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

-- John 8:52-59

"Before Abraham was, I am". What was it about this final statement that riled the Jews enough for them to want to kill Jesus?

When Moses asked God what name he should give to the children of Israel, God replied:
I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
-- Exodus 3:14

The Hebrew expression rendered in English, "I AM", carries with it the idea of continued existence. Jesus was referring to himself by the same name God had told Moses to use for Him, which is why they wanted to kill him. He was telling them, in words they would clearly understand, that there was never a time when he did not exist.

So yes, the plan the clothed Yahweh in the flesh of a man, was drawn up before the universe came into being.

Cheers and God bless,
enegue

Back to top
View users profile Send private message
agnos
Currently banned

Captain
Captain


Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 629
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 8:12 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

double post


_________________
Humans are the most vicious of all animal species.

And we still prey(sic)...

Does anyone ever listen?


Last edited by agnos on Wed May 30, 2007 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
agnos
Currently banned

Captain
Captain


Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 629
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 8:14 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

enegue, I figured it out. I regret to say it, but you were clearly incorrect in stating the early Jews were monotheistic. When Abraham came from Mesopotamia, and the land of Ur, the Jews had many tribal deities. You can find this proof all over the Old Testament anyway, it's full of examples of the Jews worshipping all kinds of other "pagan" Gods. That practice and tendency continued throughout that era. Yahweh was just one entity out of many and became prevalent through the efforts of some and as a result, became homogenized into one entity later. But Yahweh is actually a conglomeration of older pagan deities. Even the Bible itself, in Hosea 2:16, attests that the Jews were calling Yahweh Baal, and they were praying to Baal. Yahweh is a pagan deity that was coalesced from and ended up incorporating other earlier entities like the Sumerian God Enki, and the Akkadian God Ea. Just like the all-encompassing God Marduk did for the Babylonians. It was simply an age old practice to do that.

Out of all the research I have done, this below is a most excellent and scholarly site, you can study the information in depth there.

http://personalpages.tds.net/~theseeker/Yahweh.htm


_________________
Humans are the most vicious of all animal species.

And we still prey(sic)...

Does anyone ever listen?
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
agnos
Currently banned

Captain
Captain


Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 629
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 8:26 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Man, these time limits suck... Enegue, I forgot, here's another tidbit. If they were monotheistic, as you falsely claim, then why were they calling Yahweh Elohim, which is plural, as in many gods? Really, study that site, the information there blows your assumptions out of the water. That should make you rethink your "beliefs".

And BTW, "I am that I am" is not really what you think, but a mistranslation. It's all there, read.


_________________
Humans are the most vicious of all animal species.

And we still prey(sic)...

Does anyone ever listen?
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
agnos
Currently banned

Captain
Captain


Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 629
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 8:36 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Wynne-R wrote:
I should have seen that coming, but you got me. “All the way back to Adam and Eve.” So, Christianity, rather than being the upstart religion usurped from the Jews, presumes an unbroken lineage back to the first humans. Well done, Enegue.

I had thought Christianity began after Christ’s death. Apparently Christianity began with Genesis, at the moment of the creation of time, or perhaps five days later.

Set the wayback machine, Sherman, we’re rewriting history today.

— Wynn


Wynn, don't believe what enegue is saying, it is not the truth, he's putting his own slant on everything with much newer sources, such as the Bible. His research is flawed and what he says about these things is outrageous. All the motives in the Bible were aggregated from Sumerian, Babylonian, Egyptian and other sources.


Study this site, it is scholarly. Everything enegue says is false.

http://personalpages.tds.net/~theseeker/Yahweh.htm

It's easy for a person to believe what's convenient to believe and what the fundamentalists preach, because it does not require deep research and time. They present everything from a slanted perspective and study only one set of documents (the Bible), and willingly avoiding to engage in scholarly research. It's nothing but lies and propaganda, because they have an agenda. If you want to know the truth, you must become well versed in comparative religion studies, and find the true origins of all these religious motifs. And those point to Sumerian religion and even older sources. Research, learn, think independently, don't buy sanitised information.


_________________
Humans are the most vicious of all animal species.

And we still prey(sic)...

Does anyone ever listen?
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
agnos
Currently banned

Captain
Captain


Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 629
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:00 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

enegue wrote:
I'm afraid you just don't understand the nature of evidence, Agnos. Evidence is not just the data you are willing to accept, but incorporates all available material, including the bible.

You mention Akhenaten who introduced his people to the worship of Aken, but the best estimate for this practice is around the middle of the thirteenth century BCE. Moses lived and Israel flourished a century before this, and the record of Job was written two centuries before that. You are simply grasping at straws.

Around 2000 BCE, Abraham brought the knowledge of his monotheistic belief to the Pharaohs
And it came to pass, that, when Abram was come into Egypt, the Egyptians beheld the woman that she was very fair. The princes also of Pharaoh saw her, and commended her before Pharaoh: and the woman was taken into Pharaoh's house. And he entreated Abram well for her sake: and he had sheep, and oxen, and he asses, and menservants, and maidservants, and she asses, and camels. And the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram's wife. And Pharaoh called Abram, and said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife? Why saidst thou, She is my sister? so I might have taken her to me to wife: now therefore behold thy wife, take her, and go thy way. And Pharaoh commanded his men concerning him: and they sent him away, and his wife, and all that he had.
-- Genesis 12:14-20

It is not unreasonable to suggest that the reverse of what you claim, is true - Ra was the invention, and was a by-product of the Pharaoh's encounters with Yahweh.

Just caught this before my 15 minutes expired:
Wynne-R wrote:
The Bible is based on oral tradition which existed long before it was ever written. Religion must have existed long before the Jews, or even Akhenaten
Absolutely. All the way back to Adam and Eve. Wink

Cheers,
enegue



All this above is untrue. Akhenaten and the worship of Aten is the first accepted actual monotheism. They did not worship other deities, but the Jews did. Enegue fails to mention that Abraham came from Mesopotamia actually, the land of Ur, and what he brought back from there was not one God, but a conglomeration of earlier Gods. There was nothing monotheistic about Yahweh who was called many names, such as Yahweh, Yaw, Yah, Yahu, El or Elohim. Even the name Israel is a suggestive of the worship of Isis, Ra and El, all earlier deities from other cultures. YAHWEH IS A COMPOSITE GOD.

http://personalpages.tds.net/~theseeker/Yahweh.htm


_________________
Humans are the most vicious of all animal species.

And we still prey(sic)...

Does anyone ever listen?
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
agnos
Currently banned

Captain
Captain


Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 629
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:14 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

enegue wrote:
Wynne-R wrote:
I had thought Christianity began after Christ’s death. Apparently Christianity began with Genesis, at the moment of the creation of time, or perhaps five days later.
That's right. Consider this exchange between Jesus and the Pharisees:
Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

Jesus answered, If I honor myself, my honor is nothing: it is my Father that honoreth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

-- John 8:52-59

"Before Abraham was, I am". What was it about this final statement that riled the Jews enough for them to want to kill Jesus?

When Moses asked God what name he should give to the children of Israel, God replied:
I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
-- Exodus 3:14

The Hebrew expression rendered in English, "I AM", carries with it the idea of continued existence. Jesus was referring to himself by the same name God had told Moses to use for Him, which is why they wanted to kill him. He was telling them, in words they would clearly understand, that there was never a time when he did not exist.

So yes, the plan the clothed Yahweh in the flesh of a man, was drawn up before the universe came into being.

Cheers and God bless,
enegue



"I am" and "I am that I am" has nothing to do with Jesus. The Bible writers put that in his mouth, to further conglomerate and evolve their mythology.

It is actually a mistranslation and it means "I am Ea", or Enki, in the Babylonian tradition. "Eyah asher Eyah". It is an earlier pagan God Ea.(in Akkadian, East Semitic). Everything enegue has said about the origin of the Bible is false and misleading. People should study the origins of their mythologies, to understand the truth.


The answer to the true origins of the Bible and the actual pagan composite entity it endorses can be found by studying and researching Sumerian, Babylonian, Assyrian and Egyptian comparative religion.


And the page below is a great place to start if you want to know the TRUTH, not the religious slant.

http://personalpages.tds.net/~theseeker/Yahweh.htm




PS Enegue, I'm sorry I must disclose these things, because I know it must be shaking your faith, it sure pretty much shattered mine, but the quest for the truth must prevail, even if it hurts us. I'm hurting right there with you, because it's like losing your innocence, like losing something that you were betrothed to. But it's OK. We must rebuild.


_________________
Humans are the most vicious of all animal species.

And we still prey(sic)...

Does anyone ever listen?
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
enegue

General
General
Premium Member

Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 3225
Location: Australia
Premium

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:47 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Agnos wrote:
When Abraham came from Mesopotamia, and the land of Ur, the Jews had many tribal deities. You can find this proof all over the Old Testament anyway, it's full of examples of the Jews worshipping all kinds of other "pagan" Gods.
You are so desperate, Agnos.

Yes, the bible is full of examples of Jews worshipping all manner of deities, but it is also replete with Abraham's encounters with Yahweh, the self-existent ONE, who had manifest Himself by other names to many before him.
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself. And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lifted up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth, That I will not take from a thread even to to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich: Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion.
-- Genesis 14:18-24

In this encounter we see that Yahweh, the self-existent ONE, was also known to Melchizedek by the name "El", the most high God. Both men clearly acknowledge this to be so.

Your soul is your sovereign possession, Agnos. You have been it's owner from the instant your father's sperm found union with your mother's ova. You are a unique combination of a random selection of all their physical and spiritual attributes, and were born into this creation the descendant of an exile from the kingdom of heaven. God will not force you to give up your soul. You must *choose* to return to the kingdom through the portal Yahweh has provided, or remain in exile. God is bound by his own nature to make known to you that the portal only remains open until all those who want to pass through, do. And, just as surely as the antediluvian world arrived at the day of the last righteous man, so this world will also.

Cheers and God bless,
enegue

Back to top
View users profile Send private message
agnos
Currently banned

Captain
Captain


Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 629
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:57 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

enegue wrote:
Agnos wrote:
When Abraham came from Mesopotamia, and the land of Ur, the Jews had many tribal deities. You can find this proof all over the Old Testament anyway, it's full of examples of the Jews worshipping all kinds of other "pagan" Gods.
You are so desperate, Agnos.


Why do you say I'm desperate, I'm not. Always shifting the focus on my person, not my arguments. Yes Eugene, I'm desperate to defend the truth and unravel distortions. Teachers such as yourself, every day, when they correct papers, they are "desperate" to set things right. Nothing wrong with that.

enegue wrote:
Yes, the bible is full of examples of Jews worshipping all manner of deities, but it is also replete with Abraham's encounters with Yahweh, the self-existent ONE, who had manifest Himself by other names to many before him.



Now, see, this self-existent clause is the trick you are inserting, the subliminal payload that the unsavvy reader would miss. Your writing always denotes this. All the ancient High Gods, such as Ra and Enki and others had this attribute. So you are simply recycling old fables. And lastly, how exactly do you know this assertion to be true? Yahweh was no more "self-existent" than any of the other Gods were. Why not Marduk?

Oh, and how about the fact that your assertion that Yahweh is the "One" who appeared as other entities is not supported by anything and is not even in the Bible? It's only your unfounded interpolation, and is part of creative writing and fiction and mythology, not historical analysis.


enegue wrote:

And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself. And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lifted up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth, That I will not take from a thread even to to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich: Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion.
-- Genesis 14:18-24

In this encounter we see that Yahweh, the self-existent ONE, was also known to Melchizedek by the name "El", the most high God. Both men clearly acknowledge this to be so.



This above does not prove anything enegue, all cultures called their Gods God or Gods, or the Most High, and "El" anyway originates from the Ugaritic myths about Baal, or Baal-El. You are again twisting information from ancient mythology to carve out a singular Bible deity. It is simply not true. I dare you to prove me wrong on this, or at least establish a higher probability than what you see as my "interpretation". It is not interpretation, only you interpret, I present facts and data and evidence.

enegue wrote:
Your soul is your sovereign possession, Agnos. You have been it's owner from the instant your father's sperm found union with your mother's ova. You are a unique combination of a random selection of all their physical and spiritual attributes, and were born into this creation the descendant of an exile from the kingdom of heaven. God will not force you to give up your soul. You must *choose* to return to the kingdom through the portal Yahweh has provided, or remain in exile. God is bound by his own nature to make known to you that the portal only remains open until all those who want to pass through, do. And, just as surely as the antediluvian world arrived at the day of the last righteous man, so this world will also.

Cheers and God bless,
enegue


And I would appreciate it if you do not throw your pompous line of bulls*it in my direction, keep it to yourself; talking in such a disrespectful and as*holish and condescending and irreverent manner about my parents, don't you dare put those words together in one sentence with my parents, talk about your own father's and mother's reproductive parts, if the sick thoughts must obviously enter your mind, that's outrageous! You have no shame presuming to talk about another person's parents in such a disrespectful and offensive manner. I can't believe this. Keep it to yourself!
Now again, what you wrote is not true. Even in the Bible, nowhere does it state that people are a unique and random combination of whatever. Quite the contrary. The Bible is very deterministic most of the time. Please support your assertions, if you don't, why bother making them? I'm sorry, I cannot buy what you're selling. And what about twins? Nothing "random" about them, what do you think? And I don't appreciate the irony and patronizing attitude: I don't presume to know and talk about by what means you came into existence, random or not, how your parents went about it, and frankly I don't care for it. It's plain rude. Genuine debates are about exchanging arguments and supporting assertions, not preaching unproven dogma. Did you read the Sam Harris debates? The other guy lost miserably, because it was shown how everything he was talking about held no water and was phony.


Regarding the last portion of your post, again you are launching head first in the land of mythical fantasy and you interpolate your own visions as to what some fictitious deity has planned for humanity. That's utter nonsense. Everything you said about Yahweh has been borrowed from much earlier mythologies, especially including the bogus flood story. If you studied more independent legitimate sources within historical studies of the earliest cultures, you might start to see the truth. But until then, good luck dreaming on about THE COMPOSITE GOD. Do you understand what I'm telling you? There's not one iota of originality in this God you believe in. All the religious motifs were hijacked from other mythologies.

And your last allusion to yet another destruction of the world makes me think that you relish that, in which case perhaps something pathological might be at work. I hope you can rise above those unhealthy thoughts.


Remember reality and common sense, Religion is a self-imposed perversion of the truth, it is the great Enslaver of all time.


_________________
Humans are the most vicious of all animal species.

And we still prey(sic)...

Does anyone ever listen?
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
enegue

General
General
Premium Member

Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 3225
Location: Australia
Premium

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:26 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Agnos wrote:
This above does not prove anything enegue, all cultures called their Gods God or Gods, or the Most High, and "El" anyway originates from the Ugaritic myths about Baal, or Baal-El.
You don't understand. Melchizedek says, "Blessed be Abram of the most high God (El-Elyon)", and again, "blessed be the most high God (El-Elyon)", and then Abram chimes in, "I have lifted up my hand unto the LORD (Jehovah), the most high God (El-Elyon)". There could be no doubt in anyone's mind that "El-Elyon" and "Jehovah" are one-and-the-same.

Your contention that El-Elyon/Jehovah was the same as Baal or evolved from Baal, just doesn't stand up.
And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD (Jehovah), and served Baalim: And they forsook the LORD God (Jehovah Elohiym) of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods (Elohiym), of the gods (Elohiym) of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the LORD (Jehovah) to anger. And they forsook the LORD (Jehovah), and served Baal and Ashtaroth.
-- Judges 2:11-13

However you look at it, El-Elyon/Jehovah/Yahweh *is* the self-existent ONE who walked and talked with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; who brought Joseph to prominence in Egypt; who led Israel out of captivity in Egypt; who brought Israel victorious into Canaan; who then abandoned Israel to their Baals because that's what they wanted; who will ultimately leave mankind abandoned in this creation if that's what they want.

Cheers and God bless,
enegue

Back to top
View users profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic       All -> FavForums -> Religion All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ... 15, 16, 17  Next
Page 3 of 17

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001 phpBB Group
spacer spacer