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AplusWebMaster
General

 Joined: Mar 14, 2004 Posts: 4844 Location: USA
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The_Spaminator
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 Joined: Aug 28, 2007 Posts: 34
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Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:59 am Post subject: |
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That report is greatly flawed - the rating of registrars should not be taken seriously.
I especially like this bit:
| Quote: | | (...)the company is not certain whether the registrars were notified of each phishing site used in computing the takedown times in the report. |
I suspect that there is little or no scientific methodology involved. And also why not cross-reference any 'response time data' (which is decided how?) by posting the total numbers of phishing sites active on registrar X vs registrar Y?
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The_Spaminator
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 Joined: Aug 28, 2007 Posts: 34
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pwillener
SRT Trainee
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 Joined: Apr 17, 2006 Posts: 1840 Location: Japan
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:55 am Post subject: |
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Also, I have seen very few phishing scams that used a specifically registered domain name for the website (e.g. paypal-team.com); most phishing pages reside on hijacked servers, and registrars should not take down such domain names.
I think it's good to publish such background information on phishing and other web scams, but it really needs a lot more research.
http://www.markmonitor.com/ - what are they trying to accomplish?
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tembow
Blue Angel Premium Member
 Joined: Oct 10, 2005 Posts: 2945
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:24 am Post subject: |
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MarkMonitor should employ the services of a competent statistician. Statistically inept reports like this one reflect poorly on that company, and does nothing for their reputation.
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brewt
SIRT Handler Premium Member
 Joined: May 29, 2007 Posts: 792 Location: USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| pwillener wrote: | | Also, I have seen very few phishing scams that used a specifically registered domain name for the website (e.g. paypal-team.com) | I've seen lots like www.fakebank.com.xyz123.sg or some other nonsense domain.
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The_Spaminator
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 Joined: Aug 28, 2007 Posts: 34
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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I started developing a registrar abuse benchmark system once based on response times. The project was abandoned because in the end there was one big problem: it would not be possible to tell if the registrar suspended the domain based on my complaint or one from someone before or after me.
For example:
Spamislame reports phish on Monday to registrar R.
-registrar R received this complaint on Monday...does nothing..
I report the phish on Wednesday morning to the same registrar
-the registrar suspends the domain on Wednesday afternoon from Spamislame's complaint.
I enter in my database that registrar R has a response time of a few minutes. (when in reality it was 3 days!)
Another problem with the rating scale is that each phishing case is different, and so they should not be rated using the same criteria and thus compared.
For example:
* A fraudulent domain that was registered for the purpose of looking like a real bank would be shut down immediately by any self-respecting registrar.
* A hacked website of a legitimate domain would possibly involve the registrar contacting the host, the webmaster, the administrator, etc to first try and delete down the phishing pages. Only if that was impossible, would the registrar then shut down the domain.
* A web host with a customer's account hosted on a subdomain: This would be like the above, but a bit longer due to the potential ramifications of bringing offline an entire web host company.
So, in the end, I decided that there is no way to reliably create a scientific environment to be able to objectively rate registrars on performance and I thus abandoned the project.
I now believe that rating registrars should be done by anecdotal evidence and perhaps cross-referenced with the total number of phishing incidences as a ratio of the total number of domains. This is because such a rating allows for taking into account the community's experience of a registrar, as well as the registrar's "phishing fingerprint", which is going to reflect more closely the actual performance.
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moike
PIRT Handler Premium Member
 Joined: May 26, 2006 Posts: 1873
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| The_Spaminator wrote: | That report is greatly flawed
...
And...Gandi in the ten worst (WTF?)... |
I have no idea what they were looking at ... I can attest that Gandi would be in the top 10 best in a proper registrar evaluation!
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The_Spaminator
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 Joined: Aug 28, 2007 Posts: 34
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s0tet
PIRT Handler
 Joined: May 21, 2005 Posts: 2976
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | That report is greatly flawed - the rating of registrars should not be taken seriously. |
I agree with all the responses posted here about how wrong this report is!
They are leaving out many unresponsive registrars and responsive ones for that matter. This report is missing LOTS of information, so it is definitely skewed. How about all the foreign domains where phishers buy many domains and run them on botnets? - It doesn't seem any of these unresponsive registrars are mentioned at all, good or bad.
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pwillener
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 Joined: Apr 17, 2006 Posts: 1840 Location: Japan
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| s0tet wrote: | | They are leaving out many unresponsive registrars and responsive ones for that matter. This report is missing LOTS of information, so it is definitely skewed. How about all the foreign domains where phishers buy many domains and run them on botnets? - It doesn't seem any of these unresponsive registrars are mentioned at all, good or bad. |
What are "foreign domains"...?
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tembow
Blue Angel Premium Member
 Joined: Oct 10, 2005 Posts: 2945
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:30 am Post subject: What are foreign domains? |
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Foreign domains are those not registered with a registrar in your own home country, or hosted on an IP not in your own home country.
I remember my first visit to the USA, arriving at the customs clearance. There were two queues, One was labeled US Citizens. The other was labeled Aliens. I surreptitiously retracted my antennae into my frontal lobes and joined the latter.

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s0tet
PIRT Handler
 Joined: May 21, 2005 Posts: 2976
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | What are "foreign domains"...? |
A US-centric response. A better description would have been non-US TLD domains. Sorry for this non-international verbage. Tembow used the icon in his response I would have used. I never gave much thought to the word "Alien" anytime recently.
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