Eschatology

I felt it was time for a separate topic for this as it seems to be on so many minds these days. In this forum alone, (recently, at least) three different posters have expressed their belief in the concept.

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I have said several times, usually humorously, "Be careful what you wish for". Time and again, I have seen the manifesting of thought become reality. It is often not the big, but the little things. For instance, you're having a bad day, and in exasperation you cry out, "WHAT {could go wrong} NEXT!?!" How often in situations similar to this, you discover what IS next? - very often worse than what caused the exasperation in the first place?

The above "illustration" is merely a negative manifestation of one truth contained in countless texts and teachings, including the bible. Since quoting from the bible is not one of my strengths, I'll leave that to the others here that are more familiar with its contents. I'm sure someone is familiar with several such instances.


Someone sent me a link to a discussion on a philosophy discussion forum recently. Though the actual discussion was only five pages long, following the different side discussions and links took several days. One of these side trips involved the word:
egregore

I did not search further for an example, and instead filed this away as I was unfamiliar with the term "egregore". Perhaps legends and/or myths such as Loch Ness Monster, Big Foot and others fall into this category.

Throughout history, humanity has show a kind of craze that grips it in times of transition such as the changing of centuries and maybe more so at the change of a millennium. You do remember the (once anticipated) Y2K bug, I assume?

Adding to the normal state that humanity would find itself in these "times", we are also coming to an end of an age. I would prefer to think it is an opportunity to learn and grow rather than thinking we have learned nothing from history and must destroy everything.

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Hi, seafsee.

Doing a little more reading, it appears that "Egregore" is a term that comes from a background in mysticism and the occult:
Egregore:
An occult concept representing a "thought form" or "collective group mind", an autonomous psychic entity made up of, and influencing, the thoughts of a group of people.
-- Reference.com

The article says that the word is derived from the Greek word "Egregoroi" meaning "watchers", which apparently appears in the Septugant version of Lamentations 4:14. Not being a reader of Greek, I couldn't verify how the word fits in with the context. In the version of Lamentations that we have (Hebrew text), I can't see how it fits in either. Doesn't matter. The Egregoroi (Grigori) get plenty of coverage in the apocryphal Book of Enoch, and are supposed to be the fallen angels that gave birth to the Nephilim who get a mention in some translations of Genesis 6:4.

Do such unseen forces exist? I have no doubt that they do. However, I don't believe they are "created" by the group mind, rather I think that people are drawn together because of a kinship with a spiritual entity that already exists. The group then become a host for the operation of that spiritual entity.

Cheers,
enegue

Fascinating answer enegue. both of you covered a lot of ground in two posts.

The idea of the power of united human effort in the metaphysical is quoted often among Western Mystery Schools ands Hermetic Orders. They talk of the built up spiritual asset of generations of people attempting the same "great work" and include some churches and monastic orders as agents of this kind of asset building

And which particular "spiritual entity" do some Christians believe was given dominion over the Earth?


BTW, experiments have been done where a group of people consciously tried to create an apparition. If you'd like a link to the story of "Phil", I'll try and find it for you.

Hi, guys.

My definition was broad enough to encompass ALL people/spirit connections, including Christians with their God. As a Christian, I am a willing host for the operation of the Holy Spirit (the Spirit of God), and because there was a significant time in my life when I wasn't a Christian, I have material evidence for how this works.

Before I became a Chrisitan my connection with religion was minimal. My parents didn't go to church, and we didn't own a bible, but we did have fish & chips on Friday and we did buy hot-cross buns at Easter. During this time I was motivated by various things, which caused me to think in certain ways that gave rise to particular behaviours. The detail is not really important. At a point in time, however, I went to the park to play football with my brother and struck up a friendship with his best friend who was attending a church youth group. Social interactions are so much like atomic interactions, it's not funny.

Because I was drawn, by common interests, to this fellow, I was also drawn to his other interests, which included the church youth group. So, in time, I ended up going to one of their meetings. It was fun. To cut a long story short, my connection to my brother led me to a connection to his friend, which led me to a connection with Christians kids, which led me to a connection with the youth leaders, which led me to a connection to Christ. While all of this connecting was going on, new motivations appeared, and new thoughts occurred, which manifest themselves as new behaviours. Eventually, I too became a willing host for the operation of the Holy Spirit.

I am not "possessed" by God, I am only "influenced" by His Spirit. What is the difference between "possession" and "influence"? Here's what I believe.

"Possession" is what occurs when a person unwillingly becomes host to a spiritual entity. In such cases, conflict arises between the spirit of the person and the invading spirit, and this conflict disables the person's ability to function socially. In the NT there are numerous accounts of Jesus casting out demons from people who were crippled by things like fits and seizures and extremely violent behaviour. There is one account in Mark 5:1-20 where the demons cast out of a man went into a herd of pigs that drowned themselves rather than play host to the invading spirits.

"Influence" is what occurs when a person willingly becomes host to a spiritual entity. In such cases, there is harmony between the host and the spirit which enhances the host's ability to achieve a common purpose. A most interesting example of this is what took place with Judas according to John 13. In verse 2 we are told that Satan had influenced Judas' thinking, and in verse 27 we are told the Satan "entered into him" to achieve what he had conspired to do. Judas wasn't possessed by Satan, but was a willing participant in a plan that he believed would be of mutual profit. In verses 18-30 we see that none of the other disciples had a clue that any of this was going on. If Judas had been "possessed" by Satan, his behaviour would have manifest the conflict and the disciples would have noticed something. You know, "Gees, what's gotten into him?" But, they didn't.

Cheers and God bless,
enegue